Control panel to get into wiki

[Bob M]

I previously raised this after my “hello” post, but it was probably the wrong area.

Anyway, this is my problem. I've got mediawiki set up the helpful support people at ukhost, but now now I want to install some extensions and create three new namespaces. I'm OK at editing wiki's but I find that I know I know almost nothing about this back end stuff.

Looking around the web, I find a number of places which tell me what values to edit/insert into what look like sheets of code.

I figure that I need to go to control panel where there are a lot of options but I don't know where to go from there. I can’t seem to get into anything that looks like the code I supposed to be editing.

I've been playing around with PHP MY Admin in control panel - but noting looks appropriate.

Can anyone help?

[247h]

As has already been suggested in your welcome thread, you should probably be using an FTP client to access and manipulate these files that want adding or modifying, but it seems at present that you are fairly clueless? (Nothing wrong in that 'cos we all have to start somewhere)!

I'm sure there are lots of forum members who would be willing to help, including me, but it would mean you placing trust in them to have access to your web account — if this is of interest, please don't give any account info here, openly ...

Alternatively, eUKhost support staff know all about your account and, as helpful as they often are beyond the call of normal expectations, maybe you feel as though you shouldn't be asking them for further assistance? You may possibly receive offers of help from them shortly, maybe not?

I don't have any personal experience of MediaWiki (yet) but am curious about it in case I have potential customers who ask for it. I just checked out their web site hosting for info on installing extensions and it seems they haven't written them yet?!! So, would you care to explain what you'd like to add?

I found some tech info on how to create custom namespaces — I'd say this is beyond your scope (according to what you have indicated so far) as it involves editing, for starters, LocalSettings.php — are these the changes you refer to? As for the location of that file, it will depend on whether you installed MediWiki in the root folder of your website hosting, or within its own subfolder, e.g. yourdomain.com/wiki — unless I go and trial-install MediaWiki on one of my domains I can't advise further at the moment. However I will say that I would always use a subfolder and, after uploading all the files by FTP from my local PC, first make any edits or changes to my local copy before uploading them to the server. What program you would use to edit .php files can be anything from a simple text editor (Notepad) upwards.

What made you choose MediaWiki and not one of the Fantastico-available Wikis? I'm not suggesting they would be any easier but it seems logical to imagine that there would be more familiarity with those amongst forum members and eUKhost staff.

Did you try asking MediaWiki support for assistance? It doesn't seem as though they have a forum for software users though, it's just for their website hosting?

[jc8654]

Hi Bob,
I do agree with the idea of using a Fantastico install. Obviously if you've already created the wiki this could be difficult however but it will be easier to add things like this as the software available through Fantastico is fairly established. I would suggest you look at the wikis in there and view demos on their sites.

As above, I also have limited experience with MediaWiki but I would think doing namespaces could be quite a challenge to someone with limited tech knowledge. I'm not sure I'd particularly want to try it myself!

[Bob M]

Originally Posted by 247h

As has already been suggested in your welcome thread, you should probably be using an FTP client to access and manipulate these files that want adding or modifying, but it seems at present that you are fairly clueless? (Nothing wrong in that 'cos we all have to start somewhere)!

Yes, I would say that "clueless" would be a reasonable description.

I'm sure there are lots of forum members who would be willing to help, including me, but it would mean you placing trust in them to have access to your web account — if this is of interest, please don't give any account info here, openly ...

I'm a trusting sort of guy, but I take your point that posting logon details openly would be showing a little too much trust in humanity. However help from an individual such as yourself would be most welcome.

Alternatively, eUKhost support staff know all about your account and, as helpful as they often are beyond the call of normal expectations, maybe you feel as though you shouldn't be asking them for further assistance? You may possibly receive offers of help from them shortly, maybe not?

I did, in fact, try them first but I rather feel that the nature of my questions may have horrified them. I asked, "Would I be better off in the forum?" and they said, "Yes".

I don't have any personal experience of MediaWiki (yet) but am curious about it in case I have potential customers who ask for it. I just checked out their web site hosting for info on installing extensions and it seems they haven't written them yet?!! So, would you care to explain what you'd like to add?

I would like to add two additional namespaces and at least two extensions. The first extension to allow allow uploading of media files to the wiki and the second to allow the "ref" function to work. (That is to say if you use <ref> id of the website hosting you want to insert</ref> then you can get that to show in a references section at the bottom of the page.

Information on extensions can be found here.

Manual:Extensions - MediaWiki

I found some tech info on how to create custom namespaces — I'd say this is beyond your scope (according to what you have indicated so far) as it involves editing, for starters, LocalSettings.php — are these the changes you refer to?

Yes, that was what I had wanted.

As for the location of that file, it will depend on whether you installed MediWiki in the root folder of your website hosting, or within its own subfolder, e.g. yourdomain.com/wiki — unless I go and trial-install MediaWiki on one of my domains I can't advise further at the moment.

Frankly I don't know. The nice man at eukhost tech support installed it for me and the question didn't come up.

However I will say that I would always use a subfolder and, after uploading all the files by FTP from my local PC, first make any edits or changes to my local copy before uploading them to the server. What program you would use to edit .php files can be anything from a simple text editor (Notepad) upwards.

..... perhaps I see.

What made you choose MediaWiki and not one of the Fantastico-available Wikis? I'm not suggesting they would be any easier but it seems logical to imagine that there would be more familiarity with those amongst forum members and eUKhost staff.

Partly because I'm used to using mediawiki as a user as it is the same one wikipedia uses and so I'm familiar with the interface. It's also seems to look the most professional and it's the one that most other users are used to. Partly because when I initially posted my pre-sales question mentioning my zero expertise I was told: ..... will allow you to install wiki software such as MediaWiki (the same software powering the wikipedia). From this I assumed that media wouldn't be a problem. http://www.eukhost.com/forums/f11/wa...ate-wiki-4937/

Did you try asking MediaWiki support for assistance? It doesn't seem as though they have a forum for software users though, it's just for their website hosting?

No I haven't tried them yet. So far I've only gone from eukhost support to here.

Thanks very much for taking an interest. Any help or advice would be most welcome.

[jc8654]

Ok Bob,
Looking at the link, I can tell you how to add things.

First off, you need to download the ExtensionFunctions.php file. Download it to your computer and then you will need to upload it to the server. Now, I'm presuming your web site hosting is found in your public_html folder. If this is the case, in your FTP program, go to public_html and then the extensions folder. Upload the ExtensionFunctions.php file here.

Next thing to do is to upload the module you want to add to your site. To do this, download it to your computer and then unzip it. You should get an extracted folder which will contain a number of files. This folder will probably have the name of the module you want to install or alternatively it will be called "extensions" with the module folder being inside this. What you want to do is upload this "module name" folder into the extensions folder as you did with the above file using your FTP client. Once this is done, you just need to let the program know the module exists!

To "install" the module i.e. let the wiki know it exists, what you need to do is edit your "LocalSettings.php" file. There are two ways to do this: either download a copy to your computer using ftp and change it using something like notepad or use the filemanager in cPanel. The file is located in the install folder of the web site hosting i.e. like the public_html folder I outlined initially. With either method of editing make sure you take a backup before making any changes. In this way, if things go wrong you can revert them back. At the end of the code, you will see the ending part of the code which is "?>". What you need to do is add this just before the "?>":

require_once "$IP/extensions/extension_name/extension_name.php";

In this bit, what you need to do is change the "extension_name" part to the actual name of the module. When you were uploading I told you to look for the folder with the module name and this will be the same name you need to enter here.

I hope that helps a bit and if you use the link you provided on here, I hope that will walk you through it. As I say though, be sure to take a backup of things before you make any changes just in case things go wrong!

[Bob M]

Hi Jonathan.

That all sounds very positive.



Just one question on this bit:

First off, you need to download the ExtensionFunctions.php file. Download it to your computer and then you will need to upload it to the server. Now, I'm presuming your web site hosting is found in your public_html folder. If this is the case, in your FTP program, go to public_html and then the extensions folder. Upload the ExtensionFunctions.php file here.

Not wanting to lose my reputation for cluelessnes, I wonder if you could expand a bit on the bit which says . "in your FTP program, go to public_html and ..."

I know that FTP stand for file transfer program but that's about it. So I take it that this is an application which I use to upload data. Ok, presumably I have to point it at my website hosting in some way, (errr how?) enter a password at some point, identify a file to send, give a destination ... or something of that nature? Or is this something I can get at via the control panel?

Thanks very much for your time and patience.

Bob M

[jc8654]

Hi Bob,
I have a copy of Filezilla (program that does FTP connections) in my downloads section you can use. If you go here you should be able to download and install it.

Checker Design - Downloads

Once you've done that, if you enter the domain name in the server address and enter your cPanel username and password it should let you in. Once you're connected, only make changes you need as there are lots of things which run from there and so changing things your not sure about could break parts of your web hosting.

The file listing you'll see will look similar to a windows folder with your computer on the left and the server on the right. You should be able to see the public_html folder which on the server and in that, your web site hosting files are found.

Hope that's a bit clearer.

[247h]

That's a hugely comprehensive response that I won't add any confusion to by nesting quotes!

I had previously read the other thread but had forgotten its whereabouts — thanks for directing me there. So WelshTom is to blame it seems!

Anyway, I'm not surprised that eUKhost Support have backed away gracefully as it's really outside the scope of what they should be expected to help with, considering it's a third party product. Thomas seems to have some familiarity with it and I've just read John's advice as I'm writing this — it's very good but I'm left wondering just how clueless you might be and whether, because you have already stated you cannot find these file locations within cPanel (they will be accessible from within its File Manager), you may have no concept of how to use an FTP client to upload any of these new and amended files? Or where even to download a free FTP client like FileZilla from?

So the present question is whether you can follow John's advice, or whether it's gobbledegook? If the latter, then I guess you will need to find someone to do this work for you, not made any easier I think by realising you're not even local (for telecon discussion for example)?

I'm not even sure (because I don't know what facilities your shared hosting account offers you in the way of SSH access) whether these mods will be easily accomplished in entirety, according to file ownerships and permissions that need to be set — perhaps I'm being over-pessimistic about this, but it may even be that your shared hosting package won't provide these levels of access. Sorry, I'm so used to being in total control of my Dedicated Server I'm quite oblivious to the problems sometimes faced by others when doing non-standard installs.

OK, now I've just read your response to John and it seems clear you need a project manager! In hindsight, you asked all the right questions at the outset but without understanding the total scope of your needs. At this moment, without understanding more about customising MediaWiki, I don't really know if Thomas over-simplified the requirements or not.

[jc8654]

I think the shared hosting environment should be fine for the wiki. I've recently had shared hosting with eUK (and now have a similar setup myself) and SSH and things shouldn't be needed. If the thing is running ok now without the mods then it shouldn't be too much of a problem to get them to work.

As has been said above, there are people on this forum who will be willing to help! By the responses you're getting you can probably guess who they are.

P.S. Don't be scared by all the techie stuff in the last post. It makes sense to people who've been dealing with stuff for a good while now. Providing you follow my instructions it should hopefully work.... (according to the link you pointed me to!)

[Bob M]

Got the FTP client up. Connected OK using the passwords etc.

Yes, I can see the public HTML file. So working so far.

And now, just as it starts to get really interesting domestic duties call. Blast!!!

Get back to this tomorrow.

But if I can see the files, then I assume I'm on my way?

This FTP program disconnects itself quite quickly if I'm not using it. Is that normal?

Thanks again to everybody.

[247h]

Well done Bob, for moving in a positive direction! Just to let you know I've installed MediaWiki on one of my domains and all I have to do now is find the time to play with it — domestic duties I can skip!

Couldn't find a setting for connection time on my newly updated FileZilla — I normally use CuteFTP Pro (which wasn't free) so I'm in unfamiliar territory. I notice there's a setting for FTP Keep-Alive (Edit Menu > Settings > Connection > FTP) which is unticked by default, but it suggests that a properly configured server doesn't need this to be enabled. I did a non-activity test and I got disconnected after approx. 15 minutes (using Pure-FTPd on my dedicated server, which incidentally, attests to this during the login sequence).

[Bob M]

Just escaped to play with this again. I get dropped after about two minutes of non- activity. But it connects up again without fuss. Couldn't see the Keep alive option but I'm on version3.0.9.2. It tried to auto install an updated version but it didn't install for some reason. Looked like it could have been a Vista problem. I guess the best thing would be to uninstall and then restart with the newest version.

Jonathan - do you link to the most recent version?

Jonathan

Now, I'm presuming your web site hosting is found in your public_html folder. If this is the case, in your FTP program, go to public_html and then the extensions folder. Upload the ExtensionFunctions.php file here.

I see the folder.

Is there any folder where I can test my uploading skills before doing this live?

Actually it's quite good fun this.



And not I am forced to go.

[247h]

First of all, my apologies to Jonathan (for calling you John, goodness knows what I was thinking about)!

Bob, the version I just upgraded to is 3.0.10 and in the Help Menu the first option is 'Check for updates...' — perhaps yours does too? When you login to your account, scroll back the top window section of FileZilla to see which FTP server type you're using and if it states a time limit.

As for uploading you shouldn't get into difficulties — just ensure that the source folder (local site) and intended destination folder (remote site) are correct, right-click the file and left-select 'Upload' from the context-sensitive menu that appeared. I think drag'n'drop should work equally well, just refresh the window afterwards.

I've configured my example Wiki now — if it would be useful for you to play with it as a registrant, send me a PM and I'll provide the URL etc. That would also give you the opportunity to supply more detail about your objective so I can try a replication?

[jc8654]

Regarding the update Bob, what you can do is save it to the hard drive and then execute it from there. It is a Vista rights thing which causes it and I haven't had a chance to update the version we have stored.

Upload wise, as said above you should hopefully be ok providing you make sure you copy the correct files. You should be able to see the correct file names and things in the stuff you've downloaded to add the modules to the site.

[Bob M]

Thanks to Jonathan and Andy.

Filezilla didn't like the auto update, but I downloaded and installed the updated version without problems. If you go that route It does an auto-uninstall of the existing program first. Blast - it still drops when I'm not active. OK, I've now checked that "keep alive box". Though it says "a proper server shouldn't need this - contact the administrator." .....Still, its' the least of my worries. Blast. It still times out. Response: 421 no transfer from server.
Error: Disconnected from server.

No mention of time limits on software. I see occasional "keep Alive" commands flowing past - typically "NOOP" and "TYPE 1". but it still times out.

The drop-outs occur with a message "no transfer for 600 seconds" or something of that nature.

WIKI.
Created new dir on C. Downloaded "ExtensionFunctions.php". Mmmm. I can see file folder in filezilla and the contents in the window below. So far so good. Connect. Find wiki, find extensions. Drag and drop from one box to another. Looks good. Easy actually. Next thing extensions themselves and namespaces.

Found the LocalSettings.PHP file which seems to be crucial to all this. Downloaded it. Had to change it to ".txt" to view it.

[jc8654]

If it transfers the files, I wouldn't bother about it disconnecting after a period of time. It just means you'll need to reconnect when you want to upload something and hopefully that shouldn't be very often.