Hyper-V backups

**justinm** · #1 (**permalink**) 15-10-2009, 09:22

Hi,

Is there a reliable system for taking Hyper-V backups? Ideally a mirror of my (virtual)server?

I regularly backup my site files and sql server databases, but am concerned that if there was a major fault on my server that required an operating system re-install, it would take me ages to re-install the additional programs & carry out configuration changes etc.

As I'm close to launching my site this is obviously weighing more heavilly on my mind. I don't want to be in a position where the site could potentially be down for a few hours or more.

Any suggestions?

Many thanks,

Justin

P.S. As an aside http://www.watch.eukhost.com/ has been unavailable all morning. Get a server error 500 message. Emailed webmaster@watch.eukhost.com at 08.30 as requested by the error message, still not working...

**Jack** · #2 (**permalink**) 15-10-2009, 11:49

Hello Justin,

You can consider one of our remote offsite backup plan from :- Offsite Backup Service | Backup Solutions | Remote Data Backups

Our backup servers are located in US and we can setup scheduled task from plesk to create backup of all your hosting accounts.

We have setup Mirroring/failover architecture on our Windows Dedicated Servers however we have not implemented this on any of our Hyper-V VPS. One of our senior windows admin will update this thread for mirroring/failover solution on Hyperv-VPS.

Watch.eukhost.com problem has been sorted out. Its working fine now.

**justinm** · #3 (**permalink**) 16-10-2009, 09:37

Thanks Jack,

Correct me if I'm wrong but does Plesk only backup Plesk settings/config?

E.g. I use 3 apps that I installed independently of Plesk, assume these would have to be re-installed/configured manually in the event of an operating system re-install?

Also, does Plesk backup any changes I make to IIS etc?

Otherwise, assume I need to find a solution that can take a 'snapshot' of my VM? (although I think these might only run from the 'master' operating system, not my VM?).

I'm just working through my disaster recovery plans and uncomfortable where things appear to stand right now!

Thanks again,

Justin

**eUKShane** · #4 (**permalink**) 16-10-2009, 15:55

Hello,

Quote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but does Plesk only backup Plesk settings/config?

- Plesk backup includes all data files, MySQL databases etc. If plesk power pack is enabled on server then it will also include SQL databases. If power pack is not enabled then SQL database can be backup from server through management studio express.

Quote:

E.g. I use 3 apps that I installed independently of Plesk, assume these would have to be re-installed/configured manually in the event of an operating system re-install?

- In case of third party applications you will have to reinstall them as well as reconfigure them as far as site restore is concern from the backup.

Quote:

Also, does Plesk backup any changes I make to IIS etc?

Plesk does not backup any customized IIS settings, they too will have to be reconfigured in IIS.

Quote:

Otherwise, assume I need to find a solution that can take a 'snapshot' of my VM? (although I think these might only run from the 'master' operating system, not my VM?).

You can find out any third party application which will take complete backup of your VPS.

We can take the snapshot of your VPS and restore it when requires. You can ask us to take the snapshot once in a week, as per your convenience.

**justinm** · #5 (**permalink**) 17-10-2009, 10:36

Thanks Shane,

Quote:

You can find out any third party application which will take complete backup of your VPS. We can take the snapshot of your VPS and restore it when requires. You can ask us to take the snapshot once in a week, as per your convenience.

Could you be more specific? I've done a bit of reading on this which suggests that the various Hyper-V 'snapshot' backup solutions (usually VSS based) all need to be installed/managed from the 'parent' machine and not my VPS. In fact Hyper-V seems to have this facility built in?

Are you suggesting I need to purchase software that you'd install on your 'parent' Hyper-V installation? In which case can't you use the facility already included in Hyper-V?

Finally, when a snapshot is taken, would I need to store on offsite storage? (as per Jack's email). If so, how fast is the transfer speed? i.e. how long to recover a 20-30gb installation?

Sorry for all the questions, but these would seem to be fairly fundamental points for anyone hosting a commercial website.

Thanks again,

Justin

**vzAddict** · #6 (**permalink**) 18-10-2009, 04:00

Quote:

Could you be more specific? I've done a bit of reading on this which suggests that the various Hyper-V 'snapshot' backup solutions (usually VSS based) all need to be installed/managed from the 'parent' machine and not my VPS. In fact Hyper-V seems to have this facility built in?

Are you suggesting I need to purchase software that you'd install on your 'parent' Hyper-V installation? In which case can't you use the facility already included in Hyper-V?

Yes, I do agree with you that the VSS based need to be installed/configured on Main host node, but it will take backup of whole server (all the VM's). Also the third party application, which Sebastian suggested will take backup of the Data, databases, emails which are hosted with in your VM as the backup of the data on a VPS is customers responsibility.

Quote:

Finally, when a snapshot is taken, would I need to store on offsite storage? (as per Jack's email). If so, how fast is the transfer speed? i.e. how long to recover a 20-30gb installation?

Our NAS/Backup storage devices are connected to 1GBPS ports on which you can get 100MBPS data transfer.

**justinm** · #7 (**permalink**) 18-10-2009, 13:53

Thanks for the further input vzAddict,

The answer seems to be that there's currently no solution for taking 'snapshot' backups of my Hyper-V VPS hosted with you? These require installation/management from the parent machine and this is not a service you offer?

I understand I can backup data etc, as per my original post I already do. What I'm uncomfortable with is not being able to backup an image of my VPS, including all installed programs/configuration, should I ever need to do a complete re-install due to major problems etc.

A number of your competitors appear to offer this option on Hyper-V. Before I consider a move elsewhere does Eukhost plan to offer this facility in future?

Thanks,

Justin

Rock · #8 (**permalink**) 20-10-2009, 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinm

Thanks for the further input vzAddict,

The answer seems to be that there's currently no solution for taking 'snapshot' backups of my Hyper-V VPS hosted with you? These require installation/management from the parent machine and this is not a service you offer?

I understand I can backup data etc, as per my original post I already do. What I'm uncomfortable with is not being able to backup an image of my VPS, including all installed programs/configuration, should I ever need to do a complete re-install due to major problems etc.

A number of your competitors appear to offer this option on Hyper-V. Before I consider a move elsewhere does Eukhost plan to offer this facility in future?

Thanks,

Justin

Hi Justin,

I think there's been a misunderstanding somewhere, let me clear out few things. We do have the Snapshot feature available on our Hyper-V servers & can take one of your VPS/VM by logging into the server remotely using RDP & from the Hyper-V Management Console.

Hyper-V Snapshot - is a manual snapshot created by the user from the parent server, to allow you to roll back the entire VM to a past point in time. A snapshot is not a backup, it's a tool designed to apply a change or update, then either revert [in case if failures] or merge [in case of success] the VM's snapshots from the host/parent server. These are only recommended for special occasions - e.g. before a risky operation like attempting an application upgrade, etc.

The actual working of Snapshots is through the use of differencing disks. The modifications to the VHD stops & a differencing disk is attached at the time the snapshot is taken. When you return to the point in time the snapshot was taken (revert), the differencing disk is thrown away & a new one is created. Thus you start right where you left off - the same point in time. You'd be familiar with the Windows XP System Restore "Restore Points", a snapshot is quite similar..

Please find more info on the Hyper-V snapshot feature here : Virtual PC Guy's WebLog : Managing Snapshots with Hyper-V

Snapshots are not a copy of the VM but just the difference in the disk & the amount of disk space that one snapshot can take varies on how much the VM changed after one particular snapshot was taken. If you take a snapshot of a running VM the snapshot is far larger as all of the running memory space is written out as well. Furthermore merging the snapshots creates downtime for the VM hence such moves are needed to be planned & scheduled.

The alternative to HyperV Snapshots is backups using any 3rd party software such as BackupAssist, Acronis True Image, Symantec Backup Exec, etc. But these need to be installed & run from the host/parent server itself. We're working on the remote backup feature which isn't available with the HyperV application software, but also with the aforementioned 3rd party ones.

As of now, if you want to create a snapshot of your VPS, please contact our Live chat support to get it done quickly. We highly recommend that you do not use Hyper-V snapshots, or if you must, that you use them for as little time as possible, & then delete the snapshots when finished. Hyper-V Snapshots will slow performance, & also make the recovery process a little more tedious (but certainly not impossible!). Let me know if you have other questions..

**justinm** · #9 (**permalink**) 20-10-2009, 17:41

Thanks Rock,

I think that clears things up. Just to ensure I undertand correctly:

1. You can run a Hyper-V 'snapshot' of my VM, but not a good way to backup for the reasons you mention.

2. If I buy 3rd party backup software, e.g. True Image, this will need to be installed on/run from the parent server by yourselves. Service not currently available but something you're working on.

Assuming I've understood correctly, any idea when the latter might be available?

Regards,

Justin

Rock · #10 (**permalink**) 20-10-2009, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinm

Thanks Rock,

I think that clears things up. Just to ensure I undertand correctly:

1. You can run a Hyper-V 'snapshot' of my VM, but not a good way to backup for the reasons you mention.

2. If I buy 3rd party backup software, e.g. True Image, this will need to be installed on/run from the parent server by yourselves. Service not currently available but something you're working on.

Assuming I've understood correctly, any idea when the latter might be available?

Regards,

Justin

Hi Justin,

You're welcome

Yes, almost both the points you mentioned are correct, as in the second one, [you needn't purchase anything] we'd be installing the software on the host/parent server for you.

We're testing various backup methods (full, differential, etc) using these 3 (& more) backup applications. Each one has its own specialty & importance. But we need to choose the best one which would be 100% efficient in backing up the data & restoring it, keeping in mind that the performance of the host servers isn't hampered..

Also, we're working on a separate backup script, which would take the VM offline [clean shutdown] whenever the backup needs to be taken, copy the .vhd virtual hard disk files (not snapshots) to a backup location, & then power your virtual machines back on. If you're able to shutdown your machines during some regular interval, I've found this is the best way to backup virtual machines so far.

It'd take sometime, but would be readied soon as backups are one of the most important factors in the web hosting industry, which both the sides hugely rely upon

**justinm** · #11 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 08:30

Any update on when a solution will be available?

THanks

**vzAddict** · #12 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 08:59

Hello,

We have already configured Backup on one of our latest HyperV node and we are testing it. Once we get positive results we will implement the same on our other nodes as well (Just a reboot will be required).

**justinm** · #13 (**permalink**) 29-04-2010, 14:41

Hi, Any further news on the availability of the backup feature vzAddict refers to?

Thanks

**eUKShane** · #14 (**permalink**) 01-05-2010, 10:26

Hello,

We apologise for the delay in response.
Hyper-V and Vmware Cloud VMs work like a dedicated server and both store VM data in .vhd and .vmdk image formats respectively. It is always recommended to go for a remote backup plan with these packages. Please refer Offsite Backup Service | Backup Solutions | Remote Data Backups

For Hyper-V VMs, if we have to take backup from the hardware node then the only option is to take the backup of every .vhd file (for every VM) so that we can restore it as is it is when required. This option uses same disk space assigned to every VM. If we takes backup remotely then it takes much time. So we are using USB hard drives to take backups, we have almost attached USB drives to all Hyper-V nodes but still few nodes remaining.

Same way for Vmware VMs right now we are taking weekly rsync backup though it requires much time and disk space of our backup servers. Sometimes backup scripts takes 2-3 days to complete the backup.

We are also dealing with a third party licensed backup product known as "R1soft", this application needs to be installed on every VM and then we can schedule and restore the backup for required files.