Slow email? - Page 3 - UK Web Hosting | Dedicated Server Windows and Linux VPS Forum

**Nige** · #41 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 21:48

Thanks Mark. Not just my problem though, but everyone on Viking?

mxtoolbox doesn't show the same message for liverpool btw - it shows as green in the "open relay" section. Messages sent from liverpool arrive immediately, with no delay. Hence my comment about differences between Viking and Liverpool, and the possibility that it may be a configuration issue.

I'm not an expert on email problems at all, but it seems to me that Viking has been blacklisted by Yahoo for some reason (if I'm interpreting the bulkfolder header correctly). Instead of diverting to Bulk folder, mail is being delayed repeatedly, until most of it fails.
I've sent various messages to BT Yahoo about this, including a "whitelist" request (the form for which now seems to have disappeared from the site). I would suggest that anyone having the same problem to report it to Yahoo and keep replying to it inane, automated responses until either you give up, or they do!

**eUKhost.com** · #42 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 22:39

Hello Nige,

Allow me time till tomorrow afternoon. We will find some solution.

I will start my investigation from scratch and we will get this sorted.

**DPS Computing** · #43 (**permalink**) 11-11-2007, 03:53

It definitely seems a problem that Yahoo! are having problems themselves resolving. Unfortunately I think its in their hands but at least eUKhost are trying to push the issue with them as much as they can

.

**Nige** · #44 (**permalink**) 11-11-2007, 10:42

Mark, thanks very much. I appreciate your action.

David, I totally agree with you - I may have got wound up about Eukhost on occasion, but it does fix problems very quickly once they've been identified. BT and all its ilk do not, so I totally appreciate that Eukhost are hog-tied by the arrogance, complacency and lack of technical know-how of Yahoo in this instance.

LOL - Just to update - I sent a query about the issue to Yahoo - they sent back a pasted-in standard reply, none of which covered the option that Yahoo's mail servers are at fault. So, I sent them the full headers of a delayed message that clearly showed that its servers were delaying mail with error 421.
Today, I get the response - EXACTLY the same pasteed in points that they made earlier. I'm not surprised, having seen this behaviour before when I was a BT Broadband customer Any answer, however stupid and meaningless, will do, just so long as their stats can show that they respond within 24 hours. Just one of the reasons that BT don't get my broadband account anymore.

**Nige** · #45 (**permalink**) 12-11-2007, 16:01

received another reply fromYahoo - Apparently, they can do nothing, becuase I need a registry change!
They've pointed me toward this article:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=827349

The gist of which is:

Quote:

This problem occurs when your mail server requires both Secure Sockets Layer security (SSL) and Secure Password Authentication (SPA).

To my mind, this makes no sense - Does it seem a plausible solution to anyone else, before I get back to them again?

Thanks

**jc8654** · #46 (**permalink**) 12-11-2007, 16:56

It does seem a bit of a strange solution but maybe it would be worth comparing whether the server which is working with yahoo accounts has both of these required... I would wait until someone can compare this first before replying back..

**DPS Computing** · #47 (**permalink**) 12-11-2007, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nige

received another reply fromYahoo - Apparently, they can do nothing, becuase I need a registry change!
They've pointed me toward this article:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=827349

The gist of which is:

To my mind, this makes no sense - Does it seem a plausible solution to anyone else, before I get back to them again?

Thanks

It does seem strange. I would use extreme caution when following Yahoo!'s advice on something this critical - especially seen as though they seem to know very little. But I'm sure your already well aware of this.

The issue is more than likely with them, they just can't see it!! You can try it if you like but I doubt it will work. If you do make a registry backup before though in case their advice leads you up the garden path!

Hope that helps

.

**Nige** · #48 (**permalink**) 12-11-2007, 19:36

Thanks both!
My thoughts are that Yahoo doesn't know it's a**e from its elbow, and the more I thought about it, the more I think its last answer is totally wrong.

Quote:

Delay reason: SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection:
host mx2.bt.mail.yahoo.com [217.12.12.192]: 421 Message from (91.186.0.56) temporarily deferred - 4.16.50. Please refer to http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html

Which server is the error message from there? - Yahoo's I believe. I also think that neither Viking nor Yahoo servers require BOTH SSL and SPA. Additionally, and I've only just spotted this (because I have Office XP on my wife's machine) I'm using Outlook 2003 at home and Thunderbird Portable when I'm travelling. Additionally, mail fails to Yahoo servers when I'm using webmail. Oddly, some messages do get through sometimes - one arrived today after 4 days.
Needless to say, Yahoo didn't actually ask me what client I was using.
As I said before, I'm not going down the full path of BT's Kafka-esque (Monty Python, if you prefer) bureacratic madness - A few more shots, then I give up. Friends, family, clients and anyone who'll listen will be encouraged to switch from any BT related mail soonest.

**eUKhost.com** · #49 (**permalink**) 12-11-2007, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nige

Thanks both!
My thoughts are that Yahoo doesn't know it's a**e from its elbow, and the more I thought about it, the more I think its last answer is totally wrong.

Which server is the error message from there? - Yahoo's I believe. I also think that neither Viking nor Yahoo servers require BOTH SSL and SPA. Additionally, and I've only just spotted this (because I have Office XP on my wife's machine) I'm using Outlook 2003 at home and Thunderbird Portable when I'm travelling. Additionally, mail fails to Yahoo servers when I'm using webmail. Oddly, some messages do get through sometimes - one arrived today after 4 days.
Needless to say, Yahoo didn't actually ask me what client I was using.
As I said before, I'm not going down the full path of BT's Kafka-esque (Monty Python, if you prefer) bureacratic madness - A few more shots, then I give up. Friends, family, clients and anyone who'll listen will be encouraged to switch from any BT related mail soonest.

emails sent from webmail use hostname of server ( nobody@viking.eukhost.com ) while SMTP emails are sent using your domain name. Mailing list notifications also go through servers hostname so it seems that they are delaying nobody emails.

**DPS Computing** · #50 (**permalink**) 12-11-2007, 20:07

Yes, the error message definitely seems to becoming from one of Yahoo!s servers - which isn't really a surprise. By using the different clients that rules out the problems with the local computer related to sending emails.

I'll bet that its a problem with Yahoo! - I sometimes wonder who Yahoo put on their help and support sections

.

**jc8654** · #51 (**permalink**) 12-11-2007, 22:06

I guessed it was likely to be them but the only way it seems possible to deal with these people is to jump through the hoops they want you to.... And that means doing what they say occasionally or check it against something you know is working.

**Nige** · #52 (**permalink**) 13-11-2007, 08:30

Mark,
The delay happens regardless of the sending client.
I did two tests last night - one from Squirrel and one from Outook 2003 on my PC - the first arrived after 45 minutes, and the second arrived after 2 hours.
My feeling is that Yahoo is having major problems with it servers, but since it never publicly admits such problems, and doesn't give its first line tech support any information, there's not much to be done except plug away, or give up!
As David says, its no surprise that it's like this - as I've said before, BT's understanding of technology (apart from analogue voice networks) is woefully inadequate. As I've said, I was a paying BT Broadband customer until earlier this year - When they switched me to ADSL MAX last year, they didn't do it properly and it took me 3 months and 117 emails to get it fixed - the first 3 dozen emails repeated the same c**p over and over; "clear your cookies, turn off your firewall". In this case, I knew exactly what the problem was (stuck BRAS profile) and I just kept pasting in the phrase "My BRAS profile is stuck. It needs to be reset by BT Wholesale" into every reply. After 3 months they got the message, and reset the profile! Same thing happened earlier this year - profile got stuck again. Again I repeated the same phrase over and over. This time it took 2 months and 2 engineer visits. On the second engineer visit I looked over his shoulder at the diagnosics screen and gently pointed out that the data rate was stuck - perhaps that was the problem? Profile was reset, but I'd already asked for my MAC and migrated to an LLU the week after.
All of that happened when I was a PAYING customer - BT couldn't give a monkey's when they were at risk of losing money. I don't think I can go through all that s**t again, especially since nowadays I'm not a BT Broadband customer at all!

**Nige** · #53 (**permalink**) 13-11-2007, 16:19

Just had a response from Yahoo - "Please give us a convenient time and we will call you". Which inidcates that they have absolutely no idea!

Well, I give up. Will just have to let everyone I know to avoid BT Yahoo!

**jc8654** · #54 (**permalink**) 13-11-2007, 16:41

This is true, but I think it would be VERY useful to try and get to the root cause of this problem....

**Nige** · #55 (**permalink**) 13-11-2007, 16:56

I agree, but it's not going to happen through me talking to a drone in India who knows nothing but what's written on his/her script: "Clear your cookies. Turn off your firewall...."

**swexpert** · #56 (**permalink**) 13-11-2007, 18:16

Hello Nige,
Send me a one line mail at snake_on_trees [at] yahoo dot com CC to cats_in_kitchen [at] hotmail [dot] c o m and parrots_bath [at] yahoo [dot] co [dot] in. There is an underscore in the first yahoo ID mentioned.

Now send three separate mails to to all three addresses again.

Please mention your COMPUTER'S time and timezone in the mails at the time of sending.

lets see if we can dig something.

BTW, I'm another drone in India.

Regds
IJ

**swexpert** · #57 (**permalink**) 13-11-2007, 18:29

Meanwhile, Just another quick note. Some new systems also throw this message when they cannot write to the temp folder or if the sending user has consumed the mailbox. That is, instead of disk quota full, they'd be throwing up this error.

Regds
IJ

**Nige** · #58 (**permalink**) 13-11-2007, 19:51

hi! Thanks for your offer of help. I've just done as you suggested.
With regard to your second post, who's temp folder will be the problem? the sender or the recipient? - I've had this same failure on multiple mailboxes from my domain. Each mailbox has been well within quota, or has no quota imposed.
Sorry about the drone comment - I realise being tied to a script isn't the most fulfilling of jobs, but think what it's like for customers!
Oh, in case it matters, all the failed or delayed messages have been to the btinternet.com domain, not yahoo.com

**swexpert** · #59 (**permalink**) 13-11-2007, 20:47

Hi Nige,
Got your mails. Will investigate tommorrow if anything weired is there as it is 3 AM here now. Also, I don't think i'll be able to provide much help in case of BT as I don't know about their policies etc. However, I will still look at the mails and see if anything needs correction.

The temp folder I'm referring to is at the sender's server. But in that case the bounces should have come from postmaster or mailerdaemin at server.eukhost.com not the recipient. From a bitds eyeview it appears they(BT serviced by yahoo) could be in the process of taking antispam measures where rules have to be set. Your mails could be boucing due to conflicting rules or are being "defered" for local reasons such as unable to deliver to the recipient because the message could not be filtered during the set time of, say, 4 hours (you will receive a failure after 96 hours typically).

Your mails were received in no time on all my accounts. And a quick look at headers reveals everything seems to be OK. So no server issues as such.

But will see in the morning and update accordingly. Never mind the drone comments

we are all in the same boat when it is stormy.

Regds
IJ

**swexpert** · #60 (**permalink**) 13-11-2007, 21:01

Could someone at EUK fix the issue with Nige's mail.xxx..com server pointing to viking.eukhost.com (91.186.0.60) instead of 91.186.0.3?

It seems there is some minor misconfiguration in the DNS template.

ALSO, The domains do not have an SPF entry. Add both .60 and .03 as auth mx servers to SPF record then lets see.

Regds
IJ