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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 16-11-2009, 11:07
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Smile Emailing & DNS

We have our DNS and web hosting with you - let's call it ourdomain.co.uk for the purpose of this thread

Part of our DNS is (using a ficticous IP address):

mail (A) 1.1.1.1
MX [10], mail.ourdomain.co.uk


The mail.ourdomain.co.uk A Record points to our Exchange Server which is in our offices

We receive email just fine, and have done for weeks

Everytime I speak to support at eUKHost, they always take one look at our DNS and say: "mail.ourdomain.co.uk is pointing to the wrong IP address, it should be pointing to our (eUKHosts') mail server"

How can this be true? Surely the Internet won't know where to route an email destined to an @ourdomain.co.uk email address when there's ineffect two domains with the same name i.e.:

1. ourdomain.co.uk located at eUKHost
2. ourdomain.co.uk located at our offices (SBS 2008 Server)

I have a hunch that this can be explained/resolved by:

1. Setting mail.ourdomain.co.uk to point to eUKHost's mail server
2. Creating a Mail Forwarder to forward email from eUKHosts' mail server to our Exchange Server

So, my questions can be summarised as:

"Have I setup our DNS (in this particular example) correctly, or have I chosen a non-standard way of doing it?"
"Should mail.ourdomain.co.uk point to our Exchange Server or eUKHosts' mail server?"


If you have a suggestion that will require me to make any changes, please spell it out step-by-step-by-step, as you can imagine my boss is likely to be very unhappy if our emails stop working

One suggestion which won't be acceptable is if we have to setup Mail Forwards for individual email addresses - please tell me this isn't recommended

I look forward to your responses

Adam

Last edited by cuskitco; 16-11-2009 at 14:55.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 17-11-2009, 00:38
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Hi Adam,

Here are the answers to your questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuskitco View Post
"Have I setup our DNS (in this particular example) correctly, or have I chosen a non-standard way of doing it?"
Yes the DNS records are correctly setup..
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuskitco View Post
"Should mail.ourdomain.co.uk point to our Exchange Server or eUKHosts' mail server?"
Unless you want to have the emails working from our [Eukhost's] mail servers, there's absolutely nothing that needs to be changed in the current DNS setup.

All the emails would be relayed from the Exchange server itself & you can safely disable the mail services for this particular domain on Eukhost's mail servers.

Please get in touch with our Live chat support & point them to this thread in case you need any changes done with the DNS records with no downtime..
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 17-11-2009, 07:46
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A succinct answer as alwalys Rock

If i did want to use eUKHosts' mail server, what would be the steps I would follow to make this happen?

I can guess the 1st step would be...

1. Set mail.ourdomain.co.uk to point to eUKHost's mail server
2. ?
3. ?
4. ...

... but I can't imagine the Mail Forwarding part. I'm hoping I won't have to forward each individual email address, and instead somehow use a catch all email forward?!?
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 17-11-2009, 15:18
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuskitco View Post
A succinct answer as alwalys Rock

If i did want to use eUKHosts' mail server, what would be the steps I would follow to make this happen?

I can guess the 1st step would be...

1. Set mail.ourdomain.co.uk to point to eUKHost's mail server
2. ?
3. ?
4. ...
Correct, if you want to have the emails working from our servers only, you'd need to change the mail.ourdomain.co.uk record to point to eUKHost's mail server. Once the DNS record is changed, you need to wait until the changes come into effect. Nothing needs to be changed furthermore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuskitco View Post
... but I can't imagine the Mail Forwarding part. I'm hoping I won't have to forward each individual email address, and instead somehow use a catch all email forward?!?
Which emails do you wish to forward & from where to where?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 18-11-2009, 07:59
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Ultimately I want emails sent to anyemailaddress@ourdomain.co.uk to arrive at our Exchange Server, here in our offices

But, if I set mail.ourdomain.co.uk to point to eUKHosts Mail Server, then won't it try and deliver the email to the anyemailaddress@ourdomain.co.uk located at eUKHosts' Smart Email system, rather than our Exchange Server here?

How will your Smart Email system know to deliver the emails to our Exchange Server here?

This is where I expected the Mail Forwarding to come in by forwarding mail from the ourdomain.co.uk domain located on your system, to ourdomain.co.uk located on our system (SBS 2008 with Exchange Server)

My concern is that if Mail Forwarding is indeed used here, then we will have to create Mail Forwarders for each emailaccount@ourdomain.co.uk! If this is true then it is bad news, and not a preferred solution - I hope I have missunderstood

So, in summary, if I set mail.ourdomain.co.uk to point to eUKHosts Mail Server, how will your mail server know how to deliver our emails to our Exchange Server, here in our offices?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 23-11-2009, 11:48
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Rock, are you on holiday?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 24-11-2009, 04:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuskitco View Post
Rock, are you on holiday?
Sent you a PM
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 26-11-2009, 01:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuskitco View Post
Ultimately I want emails sent to anyemailaddress@ourdomain.co.uk to arrive at our Exchange Server, here in our offices

But, if I set mail.ourdomain.co.uk to point to eUKHosts Mail Server, then won't it try and deliver the email to the anyemailaddress@ourdomain.co.uk located at eUKHosts' Smart Email system, rather than our Exchange Server here?

How will your Smart Email system know to deliver the emails to our Exchange Server here?

This is where I expected the Mail Forwarding to come in by forwarding mail from the ourdomain.co.uk domain located on your system, to ourdomain.co.uk located on our system (SBS 2008 with Exchange Server)

My concern is that if Mail Forwarding is indeed used here, then we will have to create Mail Forwarders for each emailaccount@ourdomain.co.uk! If this is true then it is bad news, and not a preferred solution - I hope I have missunderstood

So, in summary, if I set mail.ourdomain.co.uk to point to eUKHosts Mail Server, how will your mail server know how to deliver our emails to our Exchange Server, here in our offices?
Hi Adam,

Here are the answers to your questions & some additional information as well on setting up SmartHost in mail servers for email forwarding. There's no need to do it for each & every email address on your domain(s), but either for a particular domain or an entire server. Hope you find it useful

Backup MX differ from Smart Hosting & are for when you are running a mail server and you want to ensure you don't lose mail during unexpected downtime. This doesnt involve into forwarding the emails when either of the server goes up & down, but is merely for email redundancy.

An MX record's preference value determines its order of priority, with 0 being highest/first priority and 50 being lowest/last priority. If the highest priority mail server is unavailable for any reason (time out, power outage, etc.), sending mail servers try to connect to the next-highest mail server; if this mail server is also unavailable, it goes to the next-highest, & so on down the list.

Here is an example of a domain having two MX records:
domain.com 41200 MX 10 mail.domain.com
domain.com 41200 MX 20 exchg.domain.com
mail.domain.com has a preference of 10 & exchg.domain.com has a preference of 20, so sending mail servers would try to connect to mail.domain.com first, and exchg.domain.com second. You can have as many MX records as you want, & define the order of importance using their preference values for any remote/backup servers you need..

Now that was about having Backup MX records for your domain, here's about the SmartHost technology:

SmartHost using a MailEnable server:
Smart hosted domains are domains that are redirected to remote mail hosts. MailEnable or the mail server hosted with Eukhost can function as a smart host. This means that it can collect mail for another host [Exchange or any other], & pass the email on..

Our mail server can smart host mail for one specific domain or for all outbound SMTP mail.. The preferred means of smart hosting is on a per domain basis. The reason for this is that it is less likely to create infinite message loops, where messages are forwarded infinitely from one mail host to another.

MailEnable will always check for local delivery [Eukhost] above sending the message to any remotely configured DNS server [Exchange]. To override this behaviour requires a system utility called MERoute. To force MailEnable to deliver to an external address over local delivery, it'd require this MERoute utility. It'll force any mail being delivered to a post office to be smart hosted out regardless of a mailbox being configured on the server which is useful for local traffic.

You can also use both the servers at a same time, ie: keeping the Eukhost server as a backup mail server, in case the Exchange server goes down. This can be done by configuring an additional MX record to have a backup MX, ie. with a different priority. This will mean that if the primary mail server is offline, that the secondary backup MX will accept the e-mail on behalf of the primary..

A target server, ie. one that knows how to deliver to the relevant user's e-mail mailbox is typically one which is the most preferred. Lower priority servers, a.k.a. backup MX or secondary MX, usually keep the messages in a queue waiting for the primary server to become available.. If both servers are online or in some way connected to one another, the backup MX will typically queue a message briefly & immediately forward it to the primary MX. The backup MX acts as a store-and-forward mail server.

To do this, configure the secondary MX mail server with all the domains to host with Eukhost, & use the smart host option for each domain, or in the SMTP service properties so that it is directed to the primary MX mail server... This way, if the primary goes offline, then the secondary will accept the mail, & queue it until the primary server is back online.

In order to configure a back-up server, create the same domains on the backup server, but no email addresses. Then, set the smart host for each domain to point to the primary server. This means that if the primary server goes down, the email will be delivered to the secondary server. This server will accept all email addressed to a domain, & then try to send this email to the primary server. Since the primary server may still be down, the emails will sit in the outbound queue, & be retried (the retry interval can be set). When the primary server comes back online, then the banked up email is sent through. This will resolve the back-up of email being received..

SmartHost using a SmarterMail server:
SmartHosting allows one SmarterMail server to accept mail for another remote server.. This can be used in a backup scenario so that if the primary mail server goes down, the secondary server will accept mail for it until the server goes back online.. For more information about the roles of SmartHosting, please see Gateways & Other Server Roles.

To configure SmartHosting correctly, changes need to be made on the secondary server & to DNS records of domains that will have SmartHosting supported.

1. Add SmartHosts - In the secondary server, add all IP addresses of the primary server to the SmartHost list.. Mail that resolves to MX records that do not match these IP addresses or accounts on the secondary server will be rejected.

2. Setup MX records -
In DNS zone of your domain, add an MX record for the secondary mail server that has a LARGER preference value than the primary mail server. Note: In MX records, lower preference value servers are tried first.

3. Set appropriate retry times -
Since the intent of SmartHosting is for the secondary server to be a backup server, adjust the retry times in General Settings to values that are more conservative. Good defaults would be: 10 minutes, 10 minutes, 10 minutes, 1440 minutes.

SmarterMail was designed to support one server in several of the below mentioned roles. eg: one server could act as an Incoming Gateway, an Outgoing Gateway, & a Backup MX. SmarterMail can also take on one of these roles when placed together with a competing mail server [MailEnable, Exchange, etc].. ie: using SmarterMail as an outgoing gateway on a server other than your primary mail server may help to resolve problems with stability of other mail servers...

Primary mail server:
* Use for storing email for defined users.
* Accessible through POP, SMTP, IMAP, & over the web.

Backup MX Server:
* Use as a backup for mail delivery in case of short amounts of downtime or delivery problems on your primary mail server..

Incoming Gateway server:
* Use to host third party anti-virus and/or anti-spam software products in order to reduce load on primary server.
* Reduces load on primary server by managing all incoming sessions & performing abuse/intrusion detection.

Outgoing Gateway server:
* Use as a delivery mechanism to reduce load on your primary servers.
* Also use as a method to combat blacklisting. If the server gets blacklisted, rotate the primary IP on the network card to a different one to send out on the new IP.

Please let know how you'd like us to proceed taking the above scenarios into consideration...
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 26-11-2009, 08:03
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Wow - I wasn't expecting that

Ok, i'm up to speed with the options, and the choices behind the options

I've scoured SmarterMail (Enterpise 6.1) which comes with our hosting, but cannot find settings that sound like they'll let me do the above

I'm guessing here, other than some DNS records, the main configuration will be done by you guys?!?

If I guess wrong, then i'm keen to do as much config myself

What are the next steps to implement mail backup and mail forwarding (from eUKHost to our Exchange)?

(P.S. Hope the Dell racks are coming along nicely )
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Old 28-11-2009, 03:51
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Hi Adam,

I'll reply to this one once I'm back in office by evening... ah yes the racks are coming good
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Old 30-11-2009, 23:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuskitco View Post
Wow - I wasn't expecting that

Ok, i'm up to speed with the options, and the choices behind the options

I've scoured SmarterMail (Enterpise 6.1) which comes with our hosting, but cannot find settings that sound like they'll let me do the above

I'm guessing here, other than some DNS records, the main configuration will be done by you guys?!?

If I guess wrong, then i'm keen to do as much config myself

What are the next steps to implement mail backup and mail forwarding (from eUKHost to our Exchange)?

(P.S. Hope the Dell racks are coming along nicely )
Hi Adam,

I've got in touch with Smarter Mail & they've suggested us to add up another server for the smart host option, which is what we aren't thinking of doing as of now.

About having email sent to ourdomain.co.uk (your domain name) be automatically forwarded to your exchange server, it can be simply done by having the MX records for the domain point to your exchange server. Since you would not be using our email services you have us turn off email in our control panel for your domain & remove the mail.ourdomain.co.uk pointing to our mail servers.

I've done some tweaks in your DNS settings & hopefully the emails sent from your site/scheduled-tasks would be sent to your exchange server without any problems.

The only reason why I would see you setting up smart-hosts & forwarders is because you want to have a split domain setup A split domain on exchange is a domain configured in such a way that you can have some emails on your regular server for example hosted with us. While you can have some emails configured on exchange. In that case we can setup mail forwarders to forward to your exchange orginisation email address. If you see in your exchange box you would see something like username_org@domainame.com. This is if you are using a orginisation at all.

What I would suggest is just to update your MX records have us disable email in our control panel for you & remove your mail A records in DNS.

If you need to use your mail server to send from a script from your website then you'd need to add our web server IP in relay & white-list's of your exchange & any additional spam filtering software you have added with exchange. Please let us know if you need any further information on this..
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 07:53
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Thanks Rock.

In conclusion, I believe our current web\domain hosting configuration is ideal. For this reason no further changes are required.

Thank you for your time, and thanks for resolving the Scheduled Task Email issue we experienced recently.

Good luck with the racks and have a great Christmas.

Adam
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Old 01-12-2009, 13:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuskitco View Post
Thanks Rock.

In conclusion, I believe our current web\domain hosting configuration is ideal. For this reason no further changes are required.

Thank you for your time, and thanks for resolving the Scheduled Task Email issue we experienced recently.

Good luck with the racks and have a great Christmas.

Adam
You're welcome, Adam.

Exactly, the DNS are perfect & no further changes required to be done into them for now..

I've already modified a part in the DNS zone file to make the emails from the scheduler task to work
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